Max And The Thought Police
Written by George Katinger · October 31, 2007
Not enough for the President of the FIA to chair an inquisition of the second most successful team in F1 history. Now he wants to regulate ?ideas?. Does the following sentence have a ring of familiarity to it?
?All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others?.
Mr. Orwell was ahead of his time when writing the Animal Farm, but I?m sure he had no inkling that the despot presidential tyrant of a regulatory body would attempt to control ?ideas? in the quest to keep one racing team ?more equal? than others. As a part of the WMSC inquisition ruling, McLaren must submit their 2008 F1 entry for scrutineering, to insure there are no components that may have been derived from the alleged purloined Ferrari 2007 design documents. Max is not satisfied with a physical comparison, design against design. He is now looking to expand the hunt for ?Ideas?.
Some quotes from El Presidente:
“The difficulty we have is that you’re not going to find on the McLaren a part that was designed by Ferrari. Instead, what you may find are ideas.
“But at this level of technology and at this level of motor sport, if the idea is given to the chief designer, he will make a component utilizing that idea, which bears no relation at all to the component perhaps being used by the other car.
“So we will be looking for the ideas.
Good lord Max, where and how do you draw the line on creativity? Both cars will have hundreds if not thousands of constituent parts that by the laws of simple physics will have commonality. How do you relate the evolution of a parts design to one single idea, then claim that idea originated with Ferrari? Doctor Demento even concedes it?s nearly impossible to do:
“Finding something will not be easy. On the other hand, there are sources we are going to deploy who will give us as good a chance as it’s possible to have to find it.”
I interpret the last comment as don?t worry; if we can?t find something we can always invent something. In an earlier post I claimed Max was in a state of Dementia. These latest statements only strengthen my beliefs. And what ?sources? are you going to deploy Max? A boatload of Ferrari engineers; to make sure they get a good understanding of McLaren?s design approach for 2008?
Here?s something else to ponder. If the data in McLaren?s hands were for the early 2007 Ferrari, why would McLaren model their 2008 car on it? The early 2007 Ferrari was demonstrably slower than the McLaren, once the illegal flex floor was removed. What possible benefit could be achieved from such data? The 2008 cars will not have traction control, which opens the design to a raft full of modifications that will affect the design of all cars.
No matter to Max, he is so convinced that they will ?find? something to attribute to Ferrari, that he?s already publicly discussing penalties:
Mosley said, however, that McLaren would not necessarily be excluded from the championship again.
“That would not necessarily be preventing them from running,” he said. “It would be more likely that they would be given a negative point allocation.”
Once again, the head of an organization that is charged with an impartial regulation of a sport is openly casting about opinions and potential sanctions for offenses that have yet to be discovered. Many have taken to calling Mosley Mad Max. I think his new name should be Torquemada, after the ?gentlemen? charged with running the Inquisition. The goal may be different but the process and results will be the same: Guilty, burn them all at the stake!
UPDATE:
It only gets worse. From grandprix.com: Talk shows
UPDATE II:
And worse yet again. Now Ferrari are actively seeking to be part of the Inquisition. From The Guardian:
A Ferrari source suggested managers at the Italian team would be best qualified to know what, if any, innovations on the McLaren are the fruits of espionage. “Ferrari knows what was passed to McLaren and what can be used,” he said. “It is not necessarily about copying but about gaining advantage by knowing what the other side is doing. When you play poker and know what cards your opponent has, you have an immediate advantage.”
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20 Responses to “Max And The Thought Police”
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Remember Max’s reply to protests about the lack of overtaking in modern F1? “F1 is like a game of chess, lots of tactical shuffling & one final victorious move?. As opposed to heathens like myself that want a race of multiple impetuous, opportunistic stabs.
I?m convinced that role of FIA president & it?s exposure to looking glass world of the paddock & F1 luminaries slowly sends a man mad. Max is not that far removed from the utter buffoon he replaced, Jean Marie Balestre, & yet when Max started in the role his governorship of the sport was commendable.
Regarding your Orwellian analogy George, & Max?s latest ?ideas? of 10 year engine freezes & hybrid solar powered widgets, I?m sticking with the mindless sheep chanting ?Four legs good, Two legs bad?
BTW, if there is an Inquisition in F1 ? not a bad idea actually ? stakes should be reserved for just about all of the major players in the FIA, FOM & FOCA. ?Out with the old management & in with the new blood?. Bernie, Max, Todt, Luca, Ron none of these guys realize they are custodians of the sport.
Max Mosley is simply crazy. Hamilton not good for the sport — but the kid hasn’t won the championship; “We’ll dock McLaren if we find something, perhaps negative points;” We will have certainty about the design and build of the 2008 McLaren.”
Yes, and so will Ferrari. Kimi may take the title again, in a cakewalk.
Can I invoke the term “nazi,” or is that reaching too far up Max’s family tree?
I have long resisted the urge to bring up that topic Marc but it gets more difficult with every loony comment he spews. Never mind his high handed unilateral imposition of his own standards. Nazi is too mild, daddy would be proud!
Loved the comparison with Max and the Spanish Inquisistion; never a truer word… to quote Mel Brooks, “you can’t Torquemada anything!”.And he seems single-minded in his determination to catch the Mclaren pigeon. Has Ron slept with Max’s wife or something. What’s behind this vendetta? Anyone have an insight?
I have to ask this: How many of the F1 teams are now swearing to themselves when they remember that they glowingly endorsed MaxiPad the last time he was up for election? I wondered at the time what they must have been smoking, but figured they knew what they were doing.
Is impeachment a possiblilty? Or do we have to resort to an outright coup?
How can you be surprised by this. The 2007 car was completed before McLaren recieved the Ferrari technical information. Any development based on this information would appear in the 2008 model. I do not like the idea of Ferrari reviewing the car but independent engineers could review the docs and study they car to determine knowledge gained from the docs was applied to the 08 car. If the car is clean then Ron can finally get this monkey off of his back. If not the board at McLaren must let him go.
Hamilton has yet to prove that he is the next Shuey. Since he has not yet driven for a back marker, had his setups handed to him on a silver platter from a 2 time world champion and from stolen information. I’m sure Kubica or Rosberg would have had a similar year if they were given such gifts. Just remember the press another driver got when he also had everything handed to him on a silver platter (J.V.) and then the downward spiral he’s made since then.
Back to the subject at hand though, Maxine is only trying to stress the importance of not using stolen “ideas” on next year’s cars. Of course you will not see any Ferrari manufactured parts on a Mclaren, they will make the parts themselfs.
You guys need to put the blame where it belongs, at the feet of one lying scumbag, Dennis the menace. If it were not for him lying under oath in court about stolen documents there would have not been any penalties given to his team this year. But if you remember correctly, when no penalties were handed out even though they were found guilty, it was with a disclaimer. The FIA made it clear at the time that if Mclaren deceived the court about not using the stolen documents there would significant penalties up to a total DQ from this and next years championship. The only reason they still are in this and next years championship is because of the great battle for this years drivers title, not wanting to deprive the public of some great racing. But I’m sure some of Maxine’s ranting of late has been because of the gift of not being DQed and then for Dennis the menace trying to drag championship into court over a mistake by some “temporary marshalls”.
If you guys were not blinded by hate for Ferrari you would also see the damage Dennis the menace has done to the sport. You should all be crying for his head in this inquisition not the messenger’s head.
Gary, the only logical point Max made was what you reiterated, that McLaren were beginning to design their ‘08 car when Coughlan had the Ferrari ‘07 documents.
With the deletion of traction control I just can’t see how any of the Ferrari info would have been helpful. Do you think they would build their own version of a flexible floor device, one that may be legal? Would Ferrari then claim it as “intellectual product”? Ridiculous. If the McLaren has an extended wheel base, will it be because Ferrari had a long wheel base this year? Even more ridiculous! I know, the McLaren has four wheels and and an internal combustion engine, just like Ferrari’s. Dock them points for next year!!. I can’t see how any of this will be provable in any way.
And how do you feel about the Ferrari brass now insisting on getting a good look at McLaren’s entry? Isn’t this EXACTLY what the FIA should be preventing?
Let me make one thing perfectly clear. I agree with mo, most if not all of McLaren’s woes this year were compounded by, if not directly caused, by Ron Dennis. He should be shown the door before the beginning of next season, if not immediately.
But the basis of the appeal I think is well grounded and necessary. I expect them to forfeit the BMW and Williams race points and keep Hamilton where he is, just as Max has “predicted”. The point of the appeal is the same as Ferrari’s complaint against McLaren being declared guilty and no penalty invoked. The marshal’s were reported a definite technical violation by the FIA’s technical staff, and imposed no penalties. It would have hurt Ferrari and benefitted McLaren. And the simple fact of the matter is the FIA doesn’t want to grant ANY consideration to McLaren this year. Justifiable? Probably. I would rather see Kimi as the champ rather than Lewis, but this point needs a legitimate justification. Sorry mo, even a jerk like Ron can have valid reasons for some of his actions.
As for temporary marshal’s, the biggest mistake FIA can make is appointing permanent marshals. Who will hire them? Who will they favor in any dispute?? Ask Max, he’s already told us who HE favors in the sport, and who he looks out for.
Well, if not permanent marshals, George, what would be better? The temps usually have trouble finding their ass cheeks with both hands. It’s something that needs to be addressed.
As for Ferrari getting a look at McLaren’s ‘08 car, only a baffoon would think that’s a good idea. And look, we have one in residence. Even having “independent” engineers taking a look is stupid. Where’s Max going to get qualified engineers to accurately assess the McLaren and how much, if any, Ferrari intellectual property is on the car?
I love Ferrari. It’s a rare occurance that they make a road car I don’t get wood over. And, I think their F1 cars are usually the most beautiful on the grid. But even I am disgusted by how Max, Jean and Luca are behaving. They, along with Ron, need to be shown the door, never to terrorize F1 again.
Those that think McLaren should be punished for ‘08 are only deluding themselves. This thought police BS has got to stop.
mo ron,
5 stars, a high five, and plenty of kudos for your excellent observation about Hamilton and his daddy having everything handed to them on a silver platter. That coupled with his rotten treatment of the press unless it is a carefully planned Hamilton event is why I cannot stand the idiot. I look forward to watching him get his arse handed to him in a hand-basket in the coming years.
Either the other team leaders and top car Mfg. are on vacation without blackberries, PC’s or even newspapers, I don’t understand why they are so quite while Maxipad shares his opinions and who he looks out for.
Unless they all realy like to see McLaren or Ron Dennis out of F1.
Regarding LH, it seems that not a lot of drivers like him too much. They all clearly state that Kimi deserves the championship. He needs to start making friends if he wants to really be the champion he is. I don’t like him, but agree he is a terrific driver.
At least Hamilton has stated publically that he doesn’t want the championship if it means he gets it from a courtroom decision. Now, if only he’d stop taking advice from his daddy, he’d have a decent chance of becoming a good driver that is also well liked.
People with opinions like Mo Ron and Kev continue to baffle me. Okay, LH won in every series he’s been in, and took the GP2 championship as well, all without the benefit of Alonso’s setup. Then he comes into F1, drives the wheels off the car, makes fewer mistakes than Alonso, and you people think it was because he was handed Alonso’s setup? Uhhh… get a clue. If the kid was driving on Alonso’s setup, he did a damn sight better on it than Alonso himself! Did you watch the Canadian GP? Did you watch the USGP? Did you watch Monaco? How can someone drive on your setup better than YOU?
Sorry, George, I know this thread is about Mad Max, but I keep having to state these blinding flashes of the obvious for people who simply don’t like Hamilton and look to degrade the youngster’s performances any way they can!
And besides, why should Hamilton have to drive for a backmarker to prove his talent to you, Mo Ron? What is your obsession with the kid driving for a backmarker? What does he have to prove by doing that? Clearly, he is good enough to win races against the former and current world champion, as he did during the season, and they were both in cars just as good as his. What does Hamilton have to prove by driving for a backmarker? Should he aspire to do that in order to satisfy you? After he wins the world championship — and he will — should he quit McLaren and go to SuperAguri or Force India? I can see his press conference now: “I feel the need to validate my speed, my championship and my desire to be in F1 to Mo Ron and Kev by raising Super Aguri to the middle of the pack instead of the back. Thank you.”
My point mrs gooch was to illustrate the lack of experience the kid has. Almost all other drivers have had to make their way to the front the old fashioned way, earn it. Yes he has won in every series he has competed in, with the help of Mclaren/Denise the menace. I never said he wasn’t a talented driver. But remember JV and all the ballyhoo over his arrival in F1. He also had won in every category he raced, chumpcar, atlantics, etc. But he seemed to think he was the best thing since grooved tyres, and we all know how that worked out. So I hope to be eating my words about LH in a few years after he either puts up or shuts up. My point was also to mention a few others who possible could be as good or better than him, my choices would be Kubica then Rosberg. To see what Kubica has gone through this year(canader) and then post some impressive results shows he has the potential to be another great driver. Time will tell, mrs gooch, who was right. To compare LH to JV isnt fair either, LH had a much better grooming period under denise the menace’s watch than the canadian could buy. So I expect many good years for the great brown hope, unless denise the menace gets canned and others in the team arent as keen on his talents as his mentor.
P.S. can I still get some health food from your wife mr gooch?
All these guys are pretty good on a top team with a good car. They all show they can win. Let’s not get confused, Massa could not do what he is doing at Sauber, why? because the car did not permit him and this year, if he was a better all around driver in wet and a bit more luck he could have taken the chamionship himself. So, while it is commendable and worthy of credit, we cannot start making LH into a Senna, Schumacher or even Alonso. Afterall he lost the championship, not the other way around. Furtermore, regardless how Alonso reacted this year ( badly ), I am sure if he had the support , not just an equal car, from McLaren he would have taken the championship with a race to spare. That’s a fact. let’s hope Maxipad and the Ferrari clowns do not affect the results of next year’s championship as they have done for a few years now. For the record I like FA and McLaren, Kimi and Ferrari. Both have shown their talents in inferior machinery. I believe a good car can make a driver look good, but also a driver can make a bad car look better than what it is.
Your point is well-taken, Mo Ron, but please refrain from your attempts at humor by mentioning my wife in these posts. While you may think it’s clever and humorous, I try to treat people with the same respect I want to be treated with and I ask that of you. Trust me, I would not allow you to speak to me that way in person.
You never answered the question anyway. “My point is…” means nothing. If the other drivers had to come up “the hard way” as you say, why does that take away from Hamilton? He raced against the same drivers you mentioned and beat them. If they were quicker or better than Hamilton, someone would have taken them under their wing in the same way Ron Dennis did Hamilton. I don’t really care about the comparison you continue to make between LH and JV — who cares? They’re two different drivers.
Mr Gooch, sorry you took offense to the Mrs Gooch remark. Mrs. Gooch’s was a small chain of health food stores in southern california in the 70s. Her husband was a racer but I can’t remember exactly what he raced( I think it might have been Porsche’s in scca). As I said before about your hero, he has yet to prove he is the great brown hope the press has made him out to be. Yes he beat the others I mentioned before, but if you know anything about racing then you will know that cubic dollars will beat cubic inches every day. Having the best equipment all of your racing life will make you a great driver, until the day you up against a better driver in equal equipment, or for that matter a worse driver in better equipment(Alonso vs. Shuey 05 & 06). If BMW/Sauber step up their game next season we may see next great white hope, again. It’s great that we have a talented drivers to watch, just keep it in perspective. I think if LH were just a little more humble and grateful of his new found wealth it would be easier to see the hero you see in him. I never liked Senner’s personality either, but he gained my respect after enough years of his endless poles and wins. Get back to me after a few years and we’ll see if my opinion has changed about your hero.
Tim, re: your marshal’s comment: Far better to have different amateur marshal’s at each race who err through ignorance than permanent marshal’s, who go race to race with built-in Maxipad favoritism.
At least now, you know at the next race you have a fresh chance at some objectivity, as opposed to seeing the same guys race in race out. I think the key is finding better qualified local marshals.